-

2025-04-17 23:28:43

hrefna@hachyderm.io

"Well if they were TRULY DECENTRALIZED like we are…"

Oh really.

We're "truly decentralized" in a meaningful, user-relevant sense here?

Exactly how do you figure?

Half the time when I click a link for a post it takes me to a server that may not even _load_ properly or that looks like it was designed in 2010.

If your server disappeared tomorrow with no ability to export your follower graph, how would you rebuild it?

If you do a server move, what happens to your post history?

If you want to exercise a right to be forgotten in the fediverse, what does that look like?

I'm not even getting into the fiasco that is _domain blocking_ here.

_Ask critical questions of the things you love_

#ActivityPub #ATProto

show all 4 comments

2025-04-18 15:38:54

Feral Ferment

feralferment@klacker.org

@Hrefna (DHC)

If your server disappeared tomorrow with no ability to export your follower graph, how would you rebuild it?

If you do a server move, what happens to your post history?

Widespread adoption of Nomadic Identity, if it ever happens, may help with this.

I am sure you already know this, but for other readers, these two 2017 articles explain how Nomadic Identity works in Hubzilla, which is based on the Nomad/Zot protocol.

https://medium.com/@tamanning/nomadic-identity-brought-to-you-by-hubzilla-67eadce13c3b
https://medium.com/@tamanning/getting-started-with-nomadic-identity-how-to-create-a-personal-channel-on-hubzilla-7d9666a428b

Mike Macgirvin recently got Nomadic Identity working on ActivityPub too.

https://fediversity.site/item/b69ce5a0-0c22-4933-8393-dce7100f4584

Unfortunately, the ActivityPub world keeps pretending that Mike Macgirvin and his work does not exist (Nomadic Identity has been around and working in Hubzilla for roughly a decade).

There's also OpenWebAuth (Federated Single Sign On). As Sean Tilley explains in this March 2024 article, Nomadic Identity and OpenWebAuth together can enable network resilience, censorship resistance, and ease of migration.

https://wedistribute.org/2024/03/activitypub-nomadic-identity/

No idea whether Nomadic Identity, OpenWebAuth, conversation containers, etc. will ever get widespread adoption. At present, the user base of software such as Hubzilla, Forte etc. (which have these features) is negligible. And at least in case of Hubzilla (which I am using), the UI and UX needs a lot of work; don't know about Forte (which is based on ActivityPub).

And yes, all the other problems with the Fediverse that you listed will still remain. At this point, I doubt if the Fedi will ever become socially and politically relevant.

#ActivityPub #ATProto #Nomad #Zot #NomadicIdentity #OpenWebAuth #Fediverse

2025-04-18 15:51:35

Feral Ferment

feralferment@klacker.org

@Hrefna (DHC)

And I agree, the celebratory "I told you so" tone in corners of the Fediverse regarding the "Bluesky/Turkiye" episode is tiring. And the cheerleading for Mastodon is counterproductive.

2025-04-18 23:34:44

Hrefna (DHC)

hrefna@hachyderm.io

@feralferment

This is why it matters that I am talking about how _users_ see it.

"We can implement this in ActivityPub, but almost no one uses it and it is not part of the spec" = it is entirely not relevant to the vast majority of network's users as they exist today.

I am aware of the nomadic identity projects. I am also aware of their _lack_ of widespread adoption and what would be required to get there, as well as what would be required to get it added to ActivityPub proper.

2025-04-18 23:56:35

Feral Ferment

feralferment@klacker.org

@Hrefna (DHC)

No disagreement with any of your points.

Yes, in practice, there is no "credible exit" for most users of the Fedi at present.

And there are no implementations of Nomadic Identity and/or OpenWebAuth that "just work" for the end user.

And it seems very unlikely that we will have any of this in the near future.

So the Fedi will remain a socially and politically irrelevant niche, in my opinion.